How to Turn a Crisis Into a Growth Opportunity

Imagine your entire business turned upside down overnight. This probably isn’t very hard for you to imagine: The COVID-19 pandemic hit the hospitality industry like a storm, throwing everything into chaos. Guests and staff suddenly faced unprecedented challenges. Businesses had to pivot, innovate, and find new ways to stay afloat. It was a time of fear, uncertainty, and intense pressure. But here’s the truth: While the pandemic was a one-of-a-kind event, it won’t be the last time any of us face massive disruptions.

Every business at some point will encounter hurdles that demand resilience and creative solutions. So what do you do when your back’s against the wall? How do you turn a crisis into an opportunity for growth?

Social Pulse Podcast: Hospitality guest Mike Scott knows exactly how. Listen to the podcast or read the transcript that follows.

As the managing director of Potters Resorts, Mike led his team through the storm with remarkable innovation and determination.

The Pandemic’s Impact

Mike Allton, host: I’d love you to start by just sharing the initial impact that you guys felt after COVID-19 and some of those immediate challenges that you faced.

Mike Scott: We didn’t see the closure coming and we just kind of thought it would be okay. And then all of a sudden, as I’m sure you guys got over there, we got the announcement to just shut the doors and send everyone home.

The first thing to deal with was the shock. We were just like, “Okay, what do we do?” We have 800 guests that we’d sent home. You know, we’ve got a massive 70-acre resort here on the east coast of the UK. And all of a sudden, it was: How do we lock the doors on this thing?

And it was crazy. How do we contact guests when all of a sudden everyone was told to go home? And, so yes, I guess the first problem was getting your head around just what to do in terms of: Should we be shutting water down or should we be locking the doors to make the place secure?

But also we had a kitchen here. We serve hundreds of thousands of meals. We had a kitchen just full of food and we’re like, “What do we do with all the food? Because no one’s going to be around to eat it.” And obviously, in those first few days, none of us had any idea whether it was going to be a week at home or will hospitality ever going to be able to recover from what we were watching on the television.

From a resort perspective, it was just all about kind of shutting it down in a stateful way and making it secure. But obviously, customer communication was then key.

For the financials, we shut everything down. We were cancelling contracts to all of our systems, just trying to remain financially viable and afloat. And then we were kind of like, you know, we need to communicate with our community and with people that have got booked and also our team and communicating with them because obviously everybody was worried about their jobs, their health, their family’s health, etc. So yeah, it was a pretty crazy time.

I mean, obviously, we all lived it. And it doesn’t feel like it’s like four and a half years ago. It still feels like it was sort of six months ago, but it’s all good.

Mike Allton: That’s how impactful an event like that is, right? It’s going to stick with us for the rest of our lives. But to your point, just so much uncertainty—not only what to do and what’s happening, but how long is it going to last? You have no idea, right? It might’ve gone away in a week. It might’ve been a month or 12 months. We didn’t know going into it.

We had a previous episode with Tyler Anderson from Casual Fridays, who is a marketing agency working with hotels. like yours. So he was one of those contracts that was being canceled by so many hotels around the world because they had to shut all their doors. And to your point, there were not only financial considerations but safety considerations.

Key Strategies

Walk me through those real quick for a second.

What were some key strategies that you might’ve implemented early on to ensure not only the safety but try and maintain some semblance of satisfaction for guests?

Mike Scott: We were very lucky.

We are the only family-owned large leisure company left in the UK. So we do have a very loyal customer base, but we also have very long-standing team members with a lot of loyalty. And that ended up really being one of the big reasons for our survival and ultimately the thrive after all of this, but, yeah, we had 600 team members at the time. And as I said, sort of 800 guests.

• We sent everyone home because, you know, as far as we were concerned, we all just had to stay away from each other. I remember it well: We dismantled the sales office, and we were leaving tables and chairs and computers and marker pens outside.
• Our sales team, a team of 60 here in Hopton, were coming up and literally driving up in the car park and picking a chair and a table. I mean, it’s mad now I think about it—putting those things in the back of their cars. We were very, I wouldn’t say very paper-driven, but we certainly had a lot of processes that required you to be in the building or be near other people. And both of those things were not an option.
• Our brand tagline when COVID hit was quality time together, which is possible during a pandemic—the worst possible tagline that you could have. So yes, we were desperate to keep everyone safe.

At that point, we didn’t even know there was going to be a vaccine. It seemed random who was getting ill from it.

We were almost being, I wouldn’t say overly cautious, probably appropriately cautious. But we ended up literally as a team here of five that looked after the resort and literally were just kind of, you know, patrolling and just making sure that everything’s fine.

But even they were in different parts of the building, we really were sending everyone as far away from each other. And it wasn’t really, I think, until they turned around and said there was a vaccine on the way that kind of we really started to get our heads around, “Okay, so now we’ve got to reopen, but how do we reopen when 800 people all eat in the same room? There’s 800 people and our team on top of that. 800 people sit in the same bar in the same theater. They play sports together.”

And yeah, I mean the logistical nightmare of how do you perform all of these functions in a business when either there are legal rules against what you should be doing but also doing the right thing. Which is, you know, looking after your team and looking after your customers.

And, so now I look back, I’m sure we’ll move on to sort of resilience and stuff. I think it was then that we were kind of like, we’ve got no choice. Giving up isn’t an option. it was actually our hundredth year. We [just built] a museum to celebrate a hundred years of being around.

And it was very much: We can’t fail a hundredth year; we’ve got to do whatever we have to do. And, it was never questioned by the senior team, the owner John Potter and his family, but also our team.

It did create a culture of “whatever comes at us.” And for a while, I’m sure it was the same with you, the rules that were coming out that you could meet people, you couldn’t meet people. You could meet people in your postcode or ZIP code, but only for half an hour, but it was okay if they were a friend of a friend. I mean, we would just sit here every morning and go, “What are the rules today? And what do we need to do to adapt to remain viable effectively?”

Mike Allton: It’s fascinating ’cause you’re talking about now a company that was built and started in 1920, which means it was founded on the east coast of England, off the heels of World War I.

You survived World War II, which was brutal over there. And all of a sudden, this pandemic is coming along and threatening to wipe everything out.

I thought it fascinating that your tagline was quality time together. And you said, yeah, that was pretty funny and inappropriate for during a pandemic. And yet I think that’s what allowed you to survive because that focus on quality time together sounds to me like that’s what allowed you to build this culture and this community around your resort that so many other hotels and hospitality areas don’t have. Because it’s transactional, right? Pay for a night and I’m on my way. I’m not part of the hotel chain community. I just happened to give them my money one night.

Mike Scott: We don’t actually take bookings through OTAs like here, booking.coms and all of the different OTAs. Every single booking we take here at Potters is a direct booking.

We do all of our own marketing; we do all of our own thing. We were one resort. We’re obviously two. We’ve got a quarter of a million Facebook fans, and we have that community and direct relationship with our customers.

Even to the point, when we closed, we had to shut down [our email system] because we were trying to just save every penny. So we set up Mailchimp because it was the cheapest mail system that we could find. And we wrote to all the guests and we said, “Look, we understand. You don’t know you’ve got jobs. You’ve got the same fears and concerns that we’ve got. But if you’ve got a booking and you’ve paid for your booking, then you can have your money back. We can’t expect you to leave it, but if you leave it with us, we promise you, if we can open these doors, we’re going to have some fun, and life will come back.”

We actually had 80 percent of our guests literally go, “Keep it, keep the money. We will when the time’s right, we’ll be back.”

That was one of the big key factors: that loyalty from our guests and that community.

And actually, as I always did say, I joked about quality time together. We actually moved that online.

The Importance of Online Community

When we closed the doors, we already had a very vibrant social media community. Here in Hopton, we have a team of 60-80 performers, singers, dancers, comedians. And for their mental health, these guys are at home going stir crazy because they’re used to performing.

Within 48 hours of lockdown, we were on StreamYard, like you and I are talking on now. These guys wanted to perform. So we started doing daily live streams. “Hi, everyone, hope you’re all okay,” then we started house parties and quiz shows. We were doing quiz shows where we were joking we couldn’t give away any prizes because we weren’t allowed to go out and get any. And we then started doing live music sets.

It ended up culminating in about a month into lockdown, there is a local [business] called Norfolk Accident Rescue Service, and basically they were at the front line. These guys are clinicians and paramedics, and all of their fundraisers stopped because obviously people weren’t fundraising.

We ended up doing a 24-hour live stream doing music comedy for 24 hours straight, and we raised about 20,000 pounds. What about 25,000 dollars, in 24 hours and we actually kept them going in petrol and facilities and stuff and ended up a very close relationship.

But actually, it was that switch to our social community, which was always vibrant before COVID, but you really did feel it wasn’t even just about the guests and wanting to entertain and connect with them. It was almost a bringing together of the community in a time where we just didn’t know what was happening.

It wasn’t just one thing to worry about, was it?

It was your job, your health, your family’s health. There were so many unknowns and uncomfortable whatever. And actually to bring it together online was something I will always treasure.

COVID was obviously an awful thing, and a lot of people lost their lives. [I’m not] in any way celebrating it.

But there was some good that came out of it. There were goods that came out. I do believe that.”

Mike Allton: That makes a lot of sense.

Let’s talk about some of the other things that happened because if we fast forward a little bit, you’ve reopened, and at some point you made the decision to go inclusive, which I don’t know that too many others, if any other facility, in this kind of an environment would have said, “Let’s pack everybody into the same facility.”

How did that work? How did that decision come about? And how did that enhance all of your service offerings?

Mike Scott: Well, we’ve always been reasonably inclusive.

Basically, before Covid, you would pay and obviously you’d get your accommodation when you came to stay, your entertainment and your activities and your food.

What wouldn’t be included, there were a few things like obviously alcohol, or drinks in general, not even just alcohol, and a few other bits and bobs. Because of Covid, when we reopened, we knew we couldn’t use, because I don’t know the rules in over there, but the rules over here was you had to stay within your family bubble.

So we knew we couldn’t reopen our restaurants because it’s like a cruise ship. You are talking one seriously big room. So we were like, we can’t open the restaurants, which is a problem when people are coming on holiday.

We ended up looking at our hotel and going, What if we made 50 restaurants by going to the 50 hotel rooms, taking all the beds out and all the normal bedroom paraphernalia, and then putting dining tables in there? And then people could come and stay, and they could then go in those dining suites as a family bubble. And they could dine safely because all of them had patio doors. So we could deliver the food in, obviously a COVID-safe environment.

And then we were like, “Right, that solves it.”

So we converted 50 hotel bedrooms into 50 restaurant tables, restaurant suites. We then had to build a whole new kitchens. So we converted four bedrooms into this huge kitchen and bar. All of this, obviously, trying to get stuff at that time from any suppliers or it was just under say, I looked back there and just think, Wow.

We then, said, okay, then, so we said, right, now we’ve got a problem: we’ve got those 50 rooms. We’re all good. How do we entertain them? Because, you know, we know families want to come back together, but Potters has always been about entertainment, and we’re like, so we’ve got this big West End Broadway theater here, massive theater, but no one’s, no one can go in it.

So how do we do that? I said, well, why don’t we livestream to the bedroom, to the restaurant suites. What’s going on in the theater? And why don’t we like set up WhatsApp so people in the rooms can then WhatsApp so our presenters and singers know that they’re there and can talk? So we were like, yeah, that seems a good idea.

We then put in big TVs, all different brands, because you couldn’t get a supplier to deliver the same. So we were putting these TVs up. We then got the cameras and everything ready …

We were then like, one problem: we haven’t got a booking system, and also, how do we tell people what we’ve done, because we can’t start printing brochures. So, we did a live stream.

We went live from the South Terrace outside. We’d built a music festival stage. We then went in the room, we obviously need to give people drinks. We can’t continuously have bar service going back and forth because we’re trying to be COVID-secure. And therefore, we bought a load of fridges because I remember pushing some of them down the corridor because they were heavy. And in the room, we just filled these fridges. I mean, just filled them with, you know, cokes and wine and champagne and basically whatever. We just filled these things up and then overnight when the guests would obviously be sleeping, we would air the room first and then we would go in and fill this fridge back up. And the guests were like, we’re really liking this.

John Potter, who is the owner, and I were sitting one day, and we said, you know, we know there’s a vaccine coming. We know everybody’s going to want to go on holiday. They’re going to want to get out of their houses. But the hospitality industry has been hit so hard. Everyone’s going to be trying to claw back losses and loans they’ve had to take out.

So everyone else is going to charge more, but they’re also going to charge extras. Suddenly, you’re going to be paying to park. You’re going to be paying for upgrades to this or upgrades to that. And we’ve always been about giving the most we can as a family-run business. You know, we run it ourselves, John and the family. We don’t rely on somebody telling us what to do.

And we’d be like, why don’t we go the other way? And instead of saying, Let’s charge you to sit in the theater or do this, let’s just go completely, fully inclusive.

You park your car. You leave your wallet, your purse, your money in your car, and you can’t spend any money. You walk in and everything’s included. You want to go on a rally cart, you want to have a gin and tonic, you want to watch a show, you want to eat four meals a day, you want a bit of pizza before you go to bed. I don’t care what you want—it’s included.

That has differentiated us hugely because every other hospitality company is going in the other direction, and you know, they are charging, in my opinion, over the top for extras. And the more they do that, the more it celebrates our concept of these people are our friends when they come here. They’ve paid a good, a good amount of money to come, but when they’re here, you know, we treat them like friends, and we don’t want them or expect them to pay for anything.

Mike Allton: That’s interesting because before we started recording, you and I were talking about how we enjoy Disney. You’re headed to the States for Disney World. I was at Euro Disney late last year, and obviously, that’s an opposite experience. We love Disney, but you will pay for everything, down to the air that you’re breathing.

It feels like a very different kind of experience, but what you’re talking about how is that in the middle of the pandemic. You are shut down. There is no income coming into the building at all. And yet you decide, “Oh, we should invest in revamping the theater and building new restaurant suites and buying TVs and cabling equipment in a former life.” I was a networking guy, so I totally understand that problem there.

And then on top of that, somebody in the organization says, “What we need is an entirely second resort.”

How COVID Built a Second Resort

Mike Scott: Yep. That was John again. John, the owner, texts me one day. (And at that point, you were now allowed to meet somebody outside as long as you stayed three meters apart.) And we’re right on the coast here.

And we went. I’ll remember it for the rest of my life. It’s a really windy day, and we were staying apart because you had to and you wanted to. It was really windy, and I could hardly hear what he was saying because it was so windy on the cliff, and he just went, “I’ve had a bit of an idea. The world is going to return to some sort of normal or new normal, as we were all saying at that point. And you know, people are going to want holidays and we’re pretty good at, you know, delivering holidays. And HopTube Resort is not going to be able to cope with, you know, the amount of people. Some are thinking, ‘Why don’t we just go and buy this other resort? And convert it.’ Because this other resort did not have theaters and sports parks and rally car tracks or anything. It was effectively a golf and spa hotel in Essex. And he said, ‘You know, if we were to buy that and we were to build a Broadway West End theater and three restaurants and open it in a hundred days … ”

And we said, “Okay, who’s doing what?” So John basically lived down there for a hundred days and was with his wife, Celia. They said, right, we’ll get the resort ready by hook or by crook. We’ll get the resort ready. Your job in Hopton is to make sure we sell it from a standing start, you know, because we’re not talking insignificant amounts of money.

But we’ve got to be full from a standing start. We open May 1st, 2022. That’s an immovable date and therefore we’re opening, and we need that to be full from the minute it opens, and ultimately, we need 40-50,000 guests a year to go and visit there and if we’re ever quiet that’s going to cause a problem because Hopton before Covid had an occupancy of 99.5 percent. We are not your average hotel that relies on the booking engines. You know we are full 24 seven three six five and that is the ethos here. You know one empty room is seen as not failure, but, you know, not good enough. And that culture, you know, means we are driving.

So, I basically was in Hopton thinking, okay, so John’s down there with the builders and getting builders at that time was an interesting challenge. Getting builders who could get any material to build anything was even more of an interesting challenge.

But John said, right, I’m going to build it. You need to get selling it.

The problem, of course, is: what am I selling? Because for a hundred days I’m selling a building site. Because it literally was a building site while they were building all the facilities.

And I’m like, okay, so we’ve got to sell this thing out. And I’ve got faith. I knew we’d get it done. I wasn’t quite so sure 24 hours before we opened, but right up to that point, I’m sure we would get it done. And literally the night before we opened, all of us were down there with our home vacuum cleaners and just, Oh, it was crazy, crazy times, but funny.

As I thought, and John and I chatted and said, okay, we obviously haven’t got a brochure because it’s not even ready. We were living on the pennies … and we came up with an idea and said, well, we want to talk to our community, but why don’t we, instead of trying to say, oh, hang in there and we’ll show you when it’s pretty, which is going to be the day we open, why don’t we take them on the journey?

So we created what we call the insiders and we went out to our community and said, look, we’re going to get videos every night. John is there. He’s going to show you what we’re doing. You’re going to see the building site. You’re going to see the challenges. You’re going to see us try to build this thing in a hundred days.

And you know, you can be actively in the story. Then come. So we set up a list, and said join the insiders. We had 60,000 people join that list within two days. and we were literally emailing, and I now look back on some of the videos. I mean, John would be walking around at three, four in the morning with a flashlight going.

I think that wall’s going, but I’m not sure. And we’ve lost the speakers. I always remember we bought a  shuffleboard, which I think is more of an American thing than it is here. The stones went missing and John was doing this video. If anyone sees the stones for a shuffleboard, please do text us, and let us know.

But we took the insiders on the journey with us. And then maybe 50 days before we opened, we went out and said, you know, you’re part of the story, but we need you to come and, you know, see what you think. And we value your opinions and feedback. And it’s not going to be perfect day one, and it wasn’t but you’ve seen what we’re trying to do here.

We opened on May 1st, and we have been full for two and a half years since opening. We have never yet had a break where we haven’t been full. And we ended up actually getting these little badges made, these little insider badges.

And when anyone came, it was one of the insider communities; you know, they actually got a little badge from us as a thank you and an appreciation for, for that support. Cause, you know, we do not take that lightly that people care enough to want to follow your story, but also, spend their hard-earned money coming out of a pandemic, on coming in and having some fun with us. So yeah, good times.

Mike Allton: What a great story. And I got to tell you, my CEO is known for coming to me and coming to others in the company with new ideas that we had to just basically drop everything and this is what we’re gonna do now. But never will I feel like oh, that’s too much in comparison to your story. He’s never come to me and said we’re gonna open a brand new hotel in a hundred days and it’s got to be full. Nothing in comparison to that.

The Role Technology Plays in the Hospitality Industry

Mike Allton: So Mike, we’ve touched on technology a little bit, but I’d love if you could explain a little bit more about the role that technology and creative thinking played in overcoming all these obstacles that you faced.

Mike Scott: I’ve touched on a few within the business in terms of some of the technology we were trying.

I guess what it also did, the pandemic, is we were very much, we had paper processes like, you know, many businesses do. We also had a lot of static data—you know, static Excel documents. Everything was here in Hopton. We had file servers with all of our documents on, and suddenly our sales team are all at home and they can’t access it.

We went cloud a lot, even our phone system was a very old-school system. So we obviously had to move to IP phones. It really did force a bit of a technical revolution, but again, out of necessity. It wasn’t necessarily strategic.

It was: How do we communicate? How do we get the team to communicate? You know, Slack, bang, just got rolled out, which is again, it’s still being used today and is a critical part of the business. I said to you earlier, you know, Google Docs and Sheets became, you know, absolutely key in that collaboration. Zoom and well, Agorapulse, you know was a key thing we were using for engaging with our community, but also sharing the load because suddenly that became a lot more intense. You know my wife’s actually our social media manager, but we also have some other people and, you know, we were all dipping in and it just kind of forced us to think outside the box in terms of what new ways can we work.

There was a lot of bad came out of the pandemic, but you know, one of the good things is it definitely broke us from thinking, “This is what we do. We are one resort, we deliver this.” I’m not saying we weren’t ever innovative then, but nothing like now. We are always now going, what’s the next step up, the next thing coming. I mean, the amount of talk of AI as I’m sure in your business, what’s that going to do next for us in a good way and probably in a bad way.

We have learned that whatever comes our way, it’ll be fine because it will be, and I do think that is a real cultural improvement in the business.

Mike Allton: That’s a huge shift. Absolutely. You mentioned earlier, we talked about resilience. You talked about actually winning some awards.

How to be Award-Worthy

Can you talk about some of the key factors that you think might have contributed to Potter’s Resorts receiving actual business awards for resilience and innovation?

Mike Scott: It’s weird, really.

We won numerous awards for, as you say, resilience, innovation for marketing, the new resorts, one new business of the year, last year. But to me, they are all outcomes in terms of what is key: we’re delivering is a great product.

And we’re much more open now to constantly self-evaluating that. And therefore, those awards. are nice. They’re fantastic, they’re great, and they’re good for marketing and they’re good for team morale, but in reality, you know, the resilience and innovation I almost wanted to, I wouldn’t say I felt fraud on it. When you got no choice, you do whatever you got to do.

And that was a lot of personal learning out of all of this: you never know what you can do until you’ve got no choice. And, you know, as from a personal level, you know, I’ve got six children. My wife, as I said, works for us here at Potters.

And I’m thinking, you know, not only is it a hundred-year business that we’ve got to save. If this goes to the wall, I’ve got a wife and six kids, a dog. I think we had four cats then. That’s going to be a tricky one. So, you know, that the resilience was out of no choice.

The innovation was the fun bit. I wouldn’t say it was ever fun, actually.

Mike Allton: That is an amazing testament to human resilience. So thank you for sharing that. My last question, cause you talked about the community and how that honestly it exists online on social media.

How are you measuring the business impact?

Mike Scott: It’s weird really, ’cause I’ve always look at, well, those top-of-funnel metrics, as you say, you know. Fans and clicks and likes, et cetera. And I always think when people say it’s a vanity, I’m like, to me, that’s just I actually disagree with that because we track all of those metrics, and I’m a bit of a metric geek.

But the one thing we do, which again was a COVID thing, is we now justify and track every single penny. We used to do some brand marketing, and we used to, because we were like, Oh, it’s fine. You know, we’ll go and spend 10,000 pounds on a billboard or a taxi.

We had in London, we had a taxi covered in our brand and we very much moved towards a “no.” We need to be proving ROI. We need to be tracking those top and final metrics, but actually the middle of funnel stuff, our guided tours, brochure requests, and clicks. And we need that to flow right the way through to bookings and conversions, et cetera.

Everything we do is, which makes me sound a bit machine-like, we track it to the penny. So, if you were to go on our social media, you know we get a hundred million odd, interactions a year, you know, some of the content we’ve had, I think you’d probably laugh.

But the reality is, you know, we’re very much Pareto, you know, 80 percent of our content is just us enjoying ourselves and showing the guests how much fun you can have if you come and stay with us at either resort. But in reality, we need to sell beds and, we need people to come and stay. And therefore, we track every single metric, but the one metric we track, which I don’t believe anybody else tracks until they message you and say they do, is customer happiness. We don’t, we don’t track. I hate NPS.

I don’t like customer satisfaction because in the world we live in now if your goal is to satisfy your customers, that’s a problem, frankly, because we track happiness, So we measure happiness.

John and I created a customer happiness score. And at the end of everybody’s break, we put a little card on their breakfast, placemat with a pen saying, keep the pen and just tick one of these five faces, obviously happy to unhappy and give us a little note of why. And we get about 80 percent of the guests fill them in. So a really good cohort to trust.

And then we’ve created a little formula that gives a score from zero to a hundred. So if every single guest ticks the happiest face, it’s a hundred. If everyone ticks the unhappiest which obviously doesn’t happen. And their comments. And within a couple of hours of that break finishing, every single team member has a copy of that. They know the score for the previous break and they know all the comments, which obviously give you that, you know, the qualitative data of why those scores and happiness score, is for this year so far, 96 and a half. And that is an internal score. We don’t benchmark against anyone else.

Our view is: If we’re fighting to get to a hundred, which is the ethos here, if every single one of our customers is actively happy, the word of mouth, the repeat business, the referral business, you can’t fail. You can’t fail.

Therefore, of all the metrics and all the CPAs and CPCs and all of that great stuff, the one metric that we genuinely believe is customer happiness.

• And if you’re measuring happiness and your goal as a team is, Let’s make all the customers happy, actively happy, we call it.
• In other words, they’re going to do something about their happiness. They’re going to leave us an online review or they’re going to tell everyone in the office, you’ve got to go to POTS for a weekend.
• It was just amazing, and therefore, you know, we have so much repeat business and so many of our guests refer their friends, family, and loved ones in here.

So in terms of metrics, the rest fascinate me, but happiness is the one we’re obsessed with.

That’s all we’ve got for today, friends. Thanks for reading this transcript of the Social Pulse Podcast: Hospitality Edition, where we’re digging into the challenges, successes, and stories of social media and community professionals in the industry, just like you. Subscribe to gain valuable insights that you will be able to apply to your own work and social presence from each and every episode.